Trading material ??????

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thev
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Trading material ??????

Post by thev »

What is it with ppl sending me PMs asking to trade content sending me lists don't you ppl understand that if we trade content bought from ppl who spend their money to produce this material we are taking money from their pockets if we do this then they end up out of pocket with less money to produce more material for our enjoyment please STOP sending me you're lists I'm not interested in trading I never have and never will trade also I have been collecting material sine around 1998 and it will be very unlikely you have any thing that will peak my interest I have around 98% of all ASFR material you can buy from the c4s stores and also from independent web sites plus lots of custom shoots as well so again please STOP sending requests to trade.

Thank you and I wish every one a happy new year.

thev.
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greneker03
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by greneker03 »

you must be talking about 'ol gata..

I got the same message and told him I would NEVER trade any of it off.

(damn roaches)


greneker03
thev
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by thev »

Hi there I've had a couple of ppl asking to trade and when I have checked their posts if any they have been blatantly asking for trades and also for private info on models too this must STOP!!!!

We the good ppl who contribute to our fetish must stand by the producers who support us by producing material in what ever form that media takes we MUST NOT TRADE this material amongst us if we wish to continue receiving new stock from these producers.

I say from this point on any requests I get from any person to trade I will name and shame them here then it is up to the forum admins if they wish to remove membership from these ppl which I wholeheartedly suggest they do I ask that every one else does the same and names and shames these parasites.

I also understand that not every one can afford to buy the material they wish too but as with every thing in life if you truly wish to own some thing then you save you're pocket money and when you have what you need you then buy it.

I can not think of any other excuse you can offer up as to way you would steal money from others.

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Zero
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by Zero »

Dude, don't call it theft. That's just libelous. It's just a disincentive action against content creators since it lowers their income to be able to afford to me them. Theft it is not.

Oh yeah and a good chunk of those messages can be traced to one person.
thev
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by thev »

Hi there at no point have I said in my posts that any one person by name is trying to obtain material by theft I simply stated that there is no excuse to steal money from another this comment was not aimed at any one person but is used as a general comment.

In common usage, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent. The word is also used as an informal shorthand term for some crimes against property, such as burglary, embezzlement, larceny, looting, robbery, shoplifting and fraud. In some jurisdictions, theft is considered to be synonymous with larceny; in others, theft has replaced larceny. Someone who carries out an act of or makes a career of theft is known as a thief. The act of theft is known by terms such as stealing, thieving, and filching.

It would and could only be considered libelous if a persons name was used in the comment and as no such name was used there is no Defamation of character or in this case as it's a written comment libel.
And for the plaintiff to claim libel they first must prove that the statement was false. Second, that person must prove that the statement caused harm. And, third, they must prove that the statement was made without adequate research into the truthfulness of the statement.

Now as a PM was sent to my inbox with these peoples names on them plainly asking to trade and that they sent lists of material they have to trade then the first rule is already out the window and as for the third rule the adequate research into the truth well I still have the PMs that were sent they were not deleted.

thev.

P.S you might be right Zero in you're comment "a good chunk of those messages can be traced to one person".
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Zero
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by Zero »

Right, and the stealing money claim is bullshit. Since you said stealing, I equated that with theft, which guess what, is the same thing. Trading of clips is not stealing money in any shape or form, it's what's called bartering. Still hurts producers and that can be a shame but it is not stealing money.
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Lord Hypno
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by Lord Hypno »

Zero wrote:Right, and the stealing money claim is bullshit. Since you said stealing, I equated that with theft, which guess what, is the same thing. Trading of clips is not stealing money in any shape or form, it's what's called bartering. Still hurts producers and that can be a shame but it is not stealing money.
I hope this does not hit a nerve and piss anyone off but... it is a loose form of stealing UNLESS ... you Trade and DO not keep copies of what you trade. here is some simple math, and why i feel it's stealing you buy a video for 20$ and trade it 5 time for other stuff that's 100$ that you have prevented the producer from making you dident steal the money out of his wallet, BUT you stole the sale for him witch was as good as money, plus the other producers now you don't have to pay. it's this fact why i probably won't ever make anymore video's. it cost's me 300-400 to make one and i Can't make that back. trust me i have been to tradeing site's like Pordbb and a few other and seen my video's there and checked the torrents with 120 seed's of my own stuff and though wow that's 2000$ i will never see wow could i have made a GREAT movie with that.

and no i can't get mad i steal music, Tv Shows, and the occasional movie for the big guys. but what people don't thing about is in our small nitch as few as 10 people trade stuff can put a small timer out of business, and right now that's fine with all the different people making stuff. But it wont last People like Eve, Lex, Nickel, hypnolust, and hypnopimp wont make video forever once sale's drop too far at some point you have to pull the plug.

So be For-Warned Trading killed me and it's only a matter of time "trading bartering, swapping and sharing". what ever you want to call it is Theft plain and simple trust me i know it hurt me bad enough that i'm Done.

Anyway's that's my buck twenty five...... I'll just leave this here
when_memes_unite4.jpg
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simonjedi
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by simonjedi »

If the video is no longer available for whatever reason. I usually consider it fair game and tradeable. Otherwise it's a no.

Also that picture is glorious!
thev
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by thev »

True a very funny picture, and well said also I'm very sorry you were hurt by these ppl blocking the sales of your material and therefore stopping the money you deserve entering you're pocket which would more than likely have encouraged you to produce more.

As for the right to trade a video which is no longer available this only becomes a public right to do so after a certain length of time and varies from place to place just take a look at MIND CONTROL THEATRE they are actually trying to sell a whole film which was made by another unrelated company which is now out of service they have taken a tape and made it digital and are charging for this film and claiming the right to do so under their legal right to do so. Now as far as royalties go for any actor/actress that may be in this film I have no idea about but just because the film may be out of print because the company no longer trades it does not mean that any contract that might have been set up while any actor/actress signed their contract is nullified by this action and in selling this film under their legal right to do so could in effect leave them wide open to actually have to pay royalties to any actor/actress these laws are a minefield because once you start trading in these sort of films that as you say are not available any more for one reason or another you become the producer of this content again and leave you're self open to large amounts of bills this is why there are actors/actress all around the world who don't act any more who have not acted in decades yet still get paid royalties because TV channels all around the world play content with them in it and as such have to pay royalties to these out of work actors/actress.

And Zero trading of material you do not own is theft try and understand the lawful interpretation of theft here it is again.



In common usage, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent. The word is also used as an informal shorthand term for some crimes against property, such as burglary, embezzlement, larceny, looting, robbery, shoplifting and fraud. In some jurisdictions, theft is considered to be synonymous with larceny; in others, theft has replaced larceny. Someone who carries out an act of or makes a career of theft is known as a thief. The act of theft is known by terms such as stealing, thieving, and filching.




I hope you are able to understand now that the taking of or "trading" of material that you do not own or have the consent of the intellectual owner to do so is theft.

I will not comment any more on this if you are still adamant on your point of view and how you understand the meaning of this law then I advise you seek legal advise and ask them to explain to you the definition and understanding as to what is meant by the lawful term/label "theft"

thev.
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Zero
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by Zero »

Right, the thing being trading material you don't own. If the person owns the clips it isn't theft, which was my point.

Oh and if you're curious, I've been involved with some of the recent SOPA and PIPA stuff going on in DC so its why I'm a bit testy on all this.
Wishmaster
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by Wishmaster »

I've gotten the PMs occasionally too, I just ignore and delete them.

I wouldn't back and forth about theft. As the point of not trading the clips is more about fostering a health economy for producers. The issue with all digital products is that resale is a gray area. If you trade your clips with another person (and you both obtained them legally), then technically when you trade, as long as you delete your copies you are exercising your right to do whatever with what you own.

But I think we all know that ppl are not going to delete in a trade, and in general trading is about increasing your collection.

The important thing is that trading in a market this small will drive producers away, since the profit margin is already small.
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Lord Hypno
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by Lord Hypno »

Zero wrote: I've been involved with some of the recent SOPA and PIPA stuff going on in DC so its why I'm a bit testy on all this.
Kill SOPA WITH fire .. please
thev wrote:True a very funny picture, and well said also I'm very sorry you were hurt by these ppl blocking the sales of your material and therefore stopping the money you deserve entering you're pocket which would more than likely have encouraged you to produce more.


Meh it would have helped but.. Truth be told doing Everything my self is a pain in the rear. also the area i live in is too remote and not enough people. i do still have a lot's of great idea's outside the normal video "girl is frozen, does tricks, get's naked, does more tricks wakes up, Done" but with out models and money it's not going to happen. but in the future i really want to visit other producers, have coffee swap idea's and pay to borrow models. kinda of a goodwill mission to make our niche better offer idea's,. soon as i recover from 2011 (homelessness, roll over car wreak, jobless,) not in that order. i'm going to try and make it to New York for a few weeks have some coffee with nickel i think IF i can make it happen.

Sorry to go way off topic Getting back on track if someone is breaking Wheaton's Law Let me and/or a mod know and i can and will block them

Wishmaster and Simonjedi I can't agree more

Also Speaking of Jedi Anyone playing "Star Wars The Old Republic" if so pm me we can hook up in game ?
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thev
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by thev »

PIPA??
Oh you mean the re-written legislation, the original being the failed to pass Combating Online Infringement and Counterfeits Act (COICA) of 2010.

Or do you mean.

Preteen & Infants Parents Association - (PIPA)
The "Grown ups" Who Are Trying To Be The Governing Force Behind The United States Of America, The Rest Of The World,The Internet and The WWW??????

Well what ever the acronym stands for at least you have the winter break to go round telling others what they can and can't say online.

For a short period it did make me wonder what side of the wall you stand on in these matters whether you're for or against these going through.

which ever the case may be I have to be truthful and say plainly I don't care for you're answer and I never will as by the time you read this I will have muted you so rant away carry on telling others what they can and can't say I wont be haring any thing you have to say.

thev.
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Zero
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by Zero »

thev wrote:PIPA??
Oh you mean the re-written legislation, the original being the failed to pass Combating Online Infringement and Counterfeits Act (COICA) of 2010.

Or do you mean.

Preteen & Infants Parents Association - (PIPA)
The "Grown ups" Who Are Trying To Be The Governing Force Behind The United States Of America, The Rest Of The World,The Internet and The WWW??????

Well what ever the acronym stands for at least you have the winter break to go round telling others what they can and can't say online.

For a short period it did make me wonder what side of the wall you stand on in these matters whether you're for or against these going through.

which ever the case may be I have to be truthful and say plainly I don't care for you're answer and I never will as by the time you read this I will have muted you so rant away carry on telling others what they can and can't say I wont be haring any thing you have to say.

thev.
Alrighty then... You want to post rants and only get people to agree with you, get off the internet and go get a show on a cable newz network that will conform to your opinion.

And why yes, I'm fighting against SOPA and its spin-off.
Last edited by Zero on Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jay
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by Jay »

Lord Hypno wrote: Also Speaking of Jedi Anyone playing "Star Wars The Old Republic" if so pm me we can hook up in game ?

I have a bounty hunter on "The Fatman" server named "Bobazod"

I have a jedi counsler on "Fort Garnik" server named "Graviss"

I split the time pretty evenly between the 2. When there is a que time on Fatman, thats when I usually play my bounty hunter.

And I love this game btw...
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Lord Hypno
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by Lord Hypno »

OK let's get back on track.... if one or a few people are harassing you via Pm's with request's to trade or begging to give them stuff.... send me or a MOD a Pm and we will look in to it
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by Loki »

Something on this subject that I found mildly entertaining....I had someone email me some time ago asking me to trade with them. I told them that I was a film producer and never hear back.

**************************

10/19/11

to me
lets trade freeze video. do you have video stuckfast nickle dakota lordhypno lets trade show your list and i will send my list of freeze video
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by Zero »

Yeah ***** constantly contacts EVERYONE about it. Even after being blocked or told to go away.
HypnoGold
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by HypnoGold »

I got one from him too. So why don't the mods ban him?
Raphael
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by Raphael »

I PM'd one of the admins a week ago concerning trade requests, and mentioned I'd open a thread if it continued, but low and behold there's already been one open for some time... I must be getting old XD

I just ignore the PM's now to be honest. I find it especially hilarious that the "trade list" offered contains about 15 clips, to which I've already purchased about 90% of them anyway :) (Side Note: I did a quick filter on my email: 245+ c4s receipts in total... O.O).

Hits the nail on the head:
Wishmaster wrote:I wouldn't back and forth about theft. As the point of not trading the clips is more about fostering a health economy for producers. The issue with all digital products is that resale is a gray area. If you trade your clips with another person (and you both obtained them legally), then technically when you trade, as long as you delete your copies you are exercising your right to do whatever with what you own.

But I think we all know that ppl are not going to delete in a trade, and in general trading is about increasing your collection.

The important thing is that trading in a market this small will drive producers away, since the profit margin is already small.
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Lord Hypno
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Re: Trading material ??????

Post by Lord Hypno »

HypnoGold wrote:So why don't the mods ban him?
because this week is the first i have really heard how bad it is, and i hate being the bad guy i have warned the users and asked them to stop (as of the 6th of this month). the most drastic thing i can do is ban IP ranges, but that's about all i can do and it's not a permanent fix to someone being a dick. Also doing so could effect other users. if it's what the majority of you would like let me know.
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